Does the VLE need saving?

[Mark Power]

It's our (CETIS's) annual meeting tomorrow and to shake things up a bit - rather than spend the day talking policy and workplanning, as we do every year - the powers that be have lined up a debate session..."Widgets will save the VLE".

It raises loads of other questions, of course, that will hopefully be discussed as part of the debate...but I thought I'd take a part of it and pose it on here.

Is the VLE a creaking, old vehicle not long from the scrapheap? If so, should it be patched up using the opportunities for more decentralisation and personalisation that something like widgets affords us?

Or should we look to go in a different direction and say thank you and goodnight to the Virtual Learning Environment?

[Fleur Corfield]

I would have to say I lean towards - creaking, old and scrapheap sounds about right. Is it really suitable with the changing learner type? Do they really support the negotiated frameworks we are now implementing or those learners studying a number of small credit awards? In an environment which is becoming more than one to one with learners and tutors and more about involving mentors and employers perhaps its time to shelve the VLE for something more flexible? Goodnight and Goodbye VLE.

[Kirstie]

It seems mainly to be used as a repository, and only being only accessible to enrolled students (so delayed access for some for some learners and lack of accessibilty for work-based mentors). Access to ePortfolio and pre-course type activity (e.g. rpl etc.) needs be undertaken outside of the institution, so the tacked-on ePFs aren't conducive to LLL. Use of the VLE hasn't really moved on over the last few years, and anecdotal evidence suggests that students are doing the other learning activity (discussion etc.) away from the institutional systems.
Definatley agree with 'creaking' -- however, to sit on the fence, there are a small number of people using the full features (I expect!)

[Paul Richardson]

I find this question really apt to my current position, and I am really struggling with it. Some background: I work for an RSC and my work supports teachers who work in the community, and managers who are involved in that process. Some of these people have recently started using a VLE (invariably Moodle), others haven't started yet, but are interested. All of them are keen to share, and to learn. Their online worlds (and mine) seem to be full of 'courses' which are just repositories of resources which people have uploaded with the worthiest of intentions, namely to share. In most cases, these teachers don't know how it feels to discuss stuff online, and therefore can't begin to design an online course which would suit their learners. Logically, I should be creating courses for them on Moodle which would give them this experience. But just about every fibre of my body rebels at this idea. It's a dilemma... Currently, I am helping them with Moodle if they are really determined, but focusing on showing them some alternatives. Interestingly, this came up at the NIACE E-Guides conference a couple of weeks ago, so the wider ACL teacher community is thinking about this now.

[Mark Power]

Thanks for the input folks! Here are the notes that were jotted down during the discussions. Makes for some good jump-off points...


VLEs are full of unused tools and widgets give us the chance to rip functionality out and make em less confusing

for 1st year of blackboard at Bangor people were REALLY creative with it (eg child psych video stuff...)
following year they just recycled what they had done the previous year - and TOLD NOT TO BE CREATIVE
need support to maintain creative cycle...

Two camps:
1) people who can't see why because they've only just got into using it
2) people like us who want to tear it down

Trick is not to tie users to one interface or tool... then you can serve everyone's needs
Whatever you do there will be some "virtual learning environment" but how do we shape it?
people are protesting against them with their feet -
- universities have been flogging people to get them onto one vle - rather than one per department
- now it's so easy for lecturers to get their own vle (or rather blog or whatever) that unis can achieve this

Now widgets give us the possibility to pick out the functionality from the VLE and use em in other places
basically exposing aspects of the "class" social network

VLE will become a set of centrally co-ordinated services which can be tapped into from wherever
organising the resources and the people

service tech IE widgets is what is required to make the VLE do what we want it to do.

VLE as a concept can not be destroyed?? it's necessary in the institution.
Essence is that institutional education itself is necessary
individual education is not sufficient
the cultural traits of the university as a system has in the past let us concentrate on the actual business of learning benefits
VLE provides tools that make it easier to access education
BUT vles have not done a good job of it - eg just storing shallow lecture notes
haven't provided models reflecting diversity of education
they are cumbersome to use - unsuccessful for all stakeholders
widgets don't address weaknesses of VLE - provide some superficial top-end stuff but don't address fundamental problems

there is no going back... it will evolve but it will not be through widgets

[Lindsay Jordan]

This is an extremely interesting question - and I'd agree with all the points made so far, but would like to offer my own perspective from a distance learning context.

When students are scattered all over the world and sometimes never meet their peers face-to-face, the VLE can have a crucial role to play - at least at first - in bringing them together in the same virtual space. To them the VLE replaces the lecture theatre, the tutor's office and the administrator's desk. Once they have started to build relationships with each other, and are a little more confident and comfortable with the VLE, then we start expanding their experience and introducing them to external tools; but we have to gather them all together virtually first, and at the moment the VLE appears to be the best way to do that.

[Emma Duke-Williams]

v]for 1st year of blackboard at Bangor people were REALLY creative with it (eg child psych video stuff...)
following year they just recycled what they had done the previous year - and TOLD NOT TO BE CREATIVE
need support to maintain creative cycle...

Two camps:
1) people who can't see why because they've only just got into using it
2) people like us who want to tear it down
Not quite sure of the point you're making ... many of our staff reuse material - often it's taken a long time (e.g videos etc.) to create, so makes sense to reuse. But, you then said they were told not to be creative ... so, did they reuse them (given they'd put in the effort to create in the first place) & were told off for re-using it, or for being creative?

I also wonder how much the "unused functionality" stems from people not realising it's there and/ or not realising how they could use it or - knowing it's there & actively realising that feature "x" would add nothing to their course pedagogically?

From a personal point of view, I'd agree that many VLEs are creaking, and that there are a great many things out there that can do things better. From a practical point of view, there's things like support (and, indeed, personal choice. For example, I've never really taken to Ning; yet more and more resources are on here. [My biggest bug-bear is the need to re-login to every Ning, and often to have to re-enter details [for example, here it remembered my name, gender & location, but had lost the photo I've got on other Nings & the home page I've entered countless times before] I've not yet figured out a way to see what I've contributed to all the Nings I belong to. So, while I think pedagogically it's much better than Facebook - Facebook does let me see everything I need on a single page. An integrated me, not a compartmentalised me.

I guess that's one of the big problems of moving away from a supplied VLE. We might have argued about which VLE is best when we got it (still don't agree with the choice they made, but that's life!) - however, if staff can make choices, no doubt choices I make would irritate my students just as much as Ning annoys me. I use Ning, because I see value in the discussion within it, not for any other reason. Would students have the same view?
(Roll on true Open Social - when I can use Elgg, my students Facebook & my colleagues Ning - and we can all get the relevant bits of stuff we need :)

Sorry, bit of a rant here :)

[Emma Duke-Williams]

Oh gosh, just been to the Ning home page - after quite a long time of not going there. It seems that I now can see all my activity on a single page! Ning has just shot up in my view of it. (Though still think that I prefer Elgg) ... still seem to have to login to all the different communities & can't work out how to have a single blog showing up in them all.

[Mark Power]

:) I tried a few platforms before choosing Ning. I do find that all of them tend to lack *something* and that you end up having to compromise. I decided I had to pick one, otherwise spend months trialing them all to death! ;)

[Emma Duke-Williams]

Yes, I bet that's true! I guess as an educator, you have the ultimate choice (unless the institution mandates system X) ... and we all have preferences. Often, it's a case (as a learner) of knowing that the benefit gained from using a system you'd rather not far outweighs the irritations ... (just wish I could get as enthusiastic about our VLE that have have to use, as given the choice of Ning or WebCT Vista ... well, Ning would win hands down!

[Robin Trangmar]

Yes - say goodbye ... I think VLEs are about the management of learning, rather than the creation and support of learning through social networking. There are so many things inside most VLEs that it makes your head ache to use them all (why would you) but in some cases it helps to have them in one place. We use wikis, uploads, file sharing and linking to URLs in the main, but the bit missing is the social networking. Most of this is limited to 'where can I find ...' in the forums.
VLEs are fine for a Cartesian model of T,L & A, but I don't think they support the important stuff. Perhaps sites like Ning and Wetpaint are the answer?
And I have to own up to using stuff on the VLE that I put there in 2002 ... because rebuilding a course in the VLE is such a time-consuming business. It does get tweaked annually (updated) but the model of learning is still the same.
In response to your point about BB Mark - Bangor had something called Colloquia (Oleg's VLE) that was very forward thinking, yet Bangor went to an electronic filing cabinet instead.
With regard to the point about being tied in to the institute's VLE, I set up my own and ran it for 4 years before being told to move to the in-house system. We've been piloting an e-portfolio system (to try to get shared reflective practice) and there is a lot of foot dragging going on over that as well ... as there is another system coming out next year. Asking about IMS compliant has not gone down well.
Paul's point resonates "In most cases, these teachers don't know how it feels to discuss stuff online" and that is the problem - many are not online active, don't reflect in private let alone in public through blogs. Yet we teach youngsters to whom Facebook etc is a way of life. I've got two students doing a small research project on how their students feel about being 'taught' through FaceBook and MySpace. With their permission, I'll share the results.

[Guy Hancock]

Widgets is a bit of a nasty word for some people as it tends to trivialise the function they perform - portals, the system able to incorporate many distributed data sources and display them (as widgets / portlets) configured by the student, teacher or other roles sounds somewhat more beneficial for the education sector.

One aspect of a VLE, is to give the learner (and teacher and parent), access to the required information at the right time, and more importantly allow learners to personalise their learning - portlets allow this type of configuration easily.

As students drive VLE interaction models with Web2.0 based upon their online lives in Facebook, Google, wikipedia etc., they have contempt for systems enforcing old world pedagogical processes - e.g. do it this way, we know what is best for you.

Widgets will not save VLE's, the whole ICT learning domain is moving too rapidly to hold on to old paradigms - think always from scratch about the needs of your stakeholders, see what you have now and 'mind the gap'. It's often faster, cheaper and better to begin anew. Build and travel light, do not expect your system to be the repository of information - it is all about providing a centralised point for accessing disparate services via interoperable standards - like a widget / portlet portal.

The rest of the effort is change management. It is fair for those from a few years earlier to seek a more structured learning environment, but it is now about being the guide on the side, allowing sharing of knowledge, personal growth and development of ideas and how to foster and capture this - ICT platforms can perform these functions.

Another thought regarding continual development of learning solutions. It is expected that within less than 5 years 70% of all web browsing shall be done via handheld devices - possibly a large portion of learning moving this way too.